Also earlier today I saw an article about how the marines in Pirates of the Caribbean have uniforms from 1747. Like, clearly not. Obviously 1770s. 

the costuming in that film is all over the place. then there’s the letter from George II? But like Jack Rakham was just killed and he died in 1720? 

WHAT YEAR IS IT POTC? WHAT YEAR? 

There are zombies and a kraken, and I feel like they fail to draw a clear line between the navy and the EITC in any of these movies, so I feel like we’re beyond dates where this series is concerned…

You have entered generic age of sail fantasy land. Names mean nothing in those movies. The Georges are just generic English names for Kings now. Jack Rackham is just a generic pirate name in that verse. Like all the generic medieval fantasies that pretend to be set in the dark ages, yet there’s a printing press and random ppl can read and there’s always a William and a Lionheart for some reason.

Also, it’s been a while since I watched these movies, but don’t some of the larger ships have crossjacks?

why is the EIC in the west indies anyway? WHAT ARE THEY DOING THERE. BECKETT YOU’RE LOST. GO HOME. 

I guess because no one has heard of the south sea company and that went bust around 1720 anyway but who the fuck knows what year it is. 

we are lost in a void of ships and jack sparrow’s stupid face that I hate and in the end we are all Governor Swann fighting the Skeleton Hand. 

And how did the East India Company get a 100-gun ship and why is Beckett in command of it? And how can two frigates take it out? Yeah, okay the Flying Dutchman is a magic ship, so maybe, but the Pearl isn’t? And why can two people sail the Interceptor, you need at least a crew of twenty, two people can’t take care of all the sails and steer it is not possible they couldn’t possible control that thing.

And who makes a movie in which two fleets are about to go at each other and then only three ships battle it out and the rest just watches and goes home afterwards what is this waste of my time.

it’s such a hilarious combination of weird and inexplicable decisions re: filming. 

That is why the best bit in all of the movies has to be the bit in the fourth one when the Spanish show up last minute and just plain destroy the McGuffin of the Week because it was against God (though the lone English marine who tried to defend it is my fave character forever. RIP you were too good for this series).

It’s like the realest shit that ever happened in one of these movies…

Jumping into this conversation to agree with all of this, particularly the frustration with that movie in which they have TWO GIANT FLEETS which don’t fight each other, because they clearly thought nobody wanted to watch a giant ship battle for some reason (they are very very wrong), and also the hilarious Spaniards in the fourth movie who absolutely steal the show. They are by far and away the best bit of that movie (though the hilarity of the missionary guy being seduced by a mermaid - I think? It has been a while - is also pretty great, mainly because they just seem to have given up with sense in that movie.)

(I also do actually genuinely enjoy the first one, because it is kind of creepy and I like the level of supernatural in it. They are also less into the confusion about the East India Trading Company, the navy, what year is it, what history is it etc)

I agree with all of this. I’ve heard it said the producers claim it’s a mishmash of stuff from 1700 - 1750, but personally I put it in the mid to late 1760s. It’s all fucked up though. 

Not that this is the sort of film to search for any sort of historical accuracy, of course, but it still makes for a fun experiment. 

I’m actually thankful Magical East India Company took over as the baddies in 2 and 3 because it brings Redcoat Killing down by 100%. 

The thing is Beckett just sort of took the Redcoats and made them EIC soldiers? Or something? Because it’s all the same actors. Even the navy was appropriated by the EIC in a manner that is laughable. 

My only argument for 1720s, and I totally, totally agree that it’s all ridiculous and we none of us can truly pin anything down date-wise because WHO KNOWS, but my only thing is that it’s King George II in the second movie (and third? or fourth? or whichever, one of the later ones). We see his name and signature for a fleeting moment. That’s my one thing. 

Also Rakham’s death. But w/e on that as it’s never explicitly stated that it’s Rakham’s body we see in the beginning (the one with the sign ‘Pirates Ye Be Warned’ which grammatically makes no sense since obviously the Y is shorthand for Th but w/e this is Disney)

They struck lucky insomuch as they could cite a historical precedent, to a degree - in the late 1700s/early 1800s the British Army struggled to stop officers from defecting to the East India Company’s military, given that the Company offered far better pay and more perks. Especially in places in India, the Army was seen as the second-rate choice for military advancement. So they could say that the Company sort of “bought up” the Royal Navy elements in the film (though of course it would never have happened to such an extent in real life, and it’s a stretch to imagine so many of the rank and file leaving the Navy and then reenlisting in the Company). 

ah ok I didn’t think that happened until later - like mid-19th century later. So good work on Disney for hitting something sorta-kinda-can-be-argued accurate-ish there hahaha. 

But yeah commissioned officers jumping ship is a bit farcical. Also as I read the films as being 1720 so that is still a bit early as the EIC wasn’t yet the massive power it became (on its way, certainly, but not there yet). But god, I mean what do I know, it’s Disney. 

Fun fact - the very opening shot of number 2 featured the blue-coated East India Company troops in Port Royal, and a quick view of the actual, real East India Company flag (which doesn’t appear again in any of the films);

With only the stripes on view in the shot, and the blue coats with red facings, my immediate reaction was “oh my God it’s the American Revolution and the Continental Army has taken over Port Royal.” Now that would have made for a different film.

I mean, John Paul Jones was a pirate, right?

The WORST thing is the flags, tbh…between Curse of the Black Pearl:

and On Stranger Tides:

(RIP Theodore Groves, who I didn’t realize was actually in all 4 films and survived the battle on the Dauntless, the Endevour being blown to pieces, only to be shot by a Spaniard over a fountain…. at least someone made a note of his bravery ;)

 the Union Jack has gotten it’s 1801 redesign. Which means, assuming the first movie was set in the 1750′s-60′s, as most seem to believe, and as most evidence would suggest, then Jack Sparrow should be in his eighties at least by the time of Stranger Tides… I don’t think he needs the Fountain as much as he thinks….

The ensigns, or lack thereof, are even worse… in Curse of the Black Pearl, the Dauntless and Interceptor, ostensibly Royal Navy vessels (HMS and all that) flew the Blue Ensign.

By On Stranger Tides, they seem to have switched to the current WHITE Ensign, but…..

only…. when going ashore? Because the HMS Providence (Capt. Barbossa’s ship) flies the Union Jack, and ONLY the Union Jack…..

Fortunately, between 1 and 4, Beckett’s EIaatCaSCaSawthetpcfC (East-India-and-also-the-Caribbean-and-South-China-and-Singapore-and-wherever-the-hell-else-the-plot-calls-for-company) flies it’s OWN ensign, so we avoid all this nonsense for a while…. They of course are their own horrible brand of anachronistic idiocy, but at least it’s not vexillological…

Like, seriously….. THIS SHOULDN’T BE SO COMPLICATED….. I’m not asking that whatever Disney prop maker who supplied these flags actually RESEARCH the period, gods-forbid, but couldn’t they at least watch a season of “Hornblower”? They would legitimately be able to avoid these mistakes just by doing that….

In view of the fact that I truly love History it pains me to say that I had to stop taking such mistakes too seriously. “Hollywood”, and by that I mean pretty much all filmmakers regardless of location, do not give the furry crack of a rat’s butt about History.  They care about the bottom line alone.  So sadly these films cannot be considered to be an insight into History anymore than “The A-Team” can be considered a training film on small unit tactics.  Honestly I think it would help the films if they were more accurate by aiding in the suspension of disbelief for the truly fictitious parts. I could more readily believe the idea of a “Calypso” or a Fountain of Youth if I wasn’t thinking about that flag being wrong or that weapon being anachronistic.

Now since you’ve brought it up, no, John Paul Jones was not a pirate he was a Naval hero with something of a past.  However that Banastre Tarleton was really kind of an asshat. But that could just be the view from this side of the Atlantic.  :)  

My Military History professor at the University of Glasgow called John Paul Jones a pirate, so it stands. 

History banter is the best banter. 

the funniest thing in the entire pirates of the caribbean series is definitely that one scene in At World’s End where they have parlay but davy jones is part of it, and rather than have him stand in the shallows or something they get a big bucket of water and have in stand on it on shore

who thought of that idea? who thought “put davy jones in a bucket of water” and had the guts to suggest it aloud? and then who went “hey that sounds like a great idea!”

at some point someone told davy jones their idea was for him to stand in a bucket of water and he agreed to it

*stands majestically in a bucket*

ok but notice the trail of buckets behind him meaning he walked from the ocean through three other buckets of water before he got into the one hes standing in